Topchef: Kun batteriskiftestationer kan erstatte tankstationerne
Sidney Goodman fra Better Place skriver i et svar til Ingeniørens læsere, at batteriskiftestationerne til elbiler kan være det afgørende middel til at bryde afhængigheden af olie. Hastigheden vil blive den samme som en påfyldning på en tankstation i dag, og brugeroplevelsen er afgørende for et teknologiskifte.
Sidney Goodman, der står for samarbejdet med bilproducenter og leverandører af tekniske komponenter til elbilprojektet Better Place. (Foto: Thomas Djursing)
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Verdens første batteriskiftestation: Elbiler får nyt batteri på 45 sek.
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Læs mere om
Ideen er egentlig såre simpel, og måske er det netop årsagen til, at investorer over hele verden har smidt penge i projektet: Hvis batterierne ikke kan bringe bilejerne fra København til Århus på en opladning, så skifter vi dem bare undervejs, på samme måde som benzinbiler får nyt brændstof på tankstationen.
Sådan lyder visionen fra Better Place, der for et par måneder fjernede ordet Project (Better Place) i sit navn.
I svar til Ingeniørens læsere den 11. juni skriver Sidney Goodman blandt andet, at brugeroplevelsen er afgørende for at gennemføre et teknologiskifte. Med batteriskiftestationerne er det muligt at få en ”påfyldning” lige så hurtigt, som man fylder tanken op på en almindelig tankstation i dag. Og den brugeroplevelse, mener Sidney Goodman kan fremrykke skiftet til elbiler betragteligt.
Læs alle Sidney Goodmans svar til Ingeniørens læsere herunder
Det er ikke længere muligt at stille spørgsmål til Sidney Goodman
Niels Paarup-Petersen
Hi - impressive project!
What are the chances of expanding the scope of the introduction in Denmark to include Northern Germany and Southern Sweden?
Sidney Goodman
Dear Niels, Thank you for the question. As you may know, we are actively working with various governments and other partners around the world including multiple European countries. That said, we do not disclose specific plans rather allow our partners to announce their agreements with us at the appropriate time.
Lars Outzen
How are you dealing with the fact that every gas-station can deliver power to every car today? Will every battery-based car be able to get power at a Better Place battery-station? Are the physical, mechanical, and electrical properties of Better Place's batteries ISO-standardized, or are you creating a monopoly intentionally?
Sidney Goodman
Hello Lars,
Better Place's infrastructure is standards based and will be open to support multiple types of EV's (including but not limited to EREV, PHEV, BEV with or without battery switch etc). While we strongly believe in standards, do keep in mind that many standards that are required to address all the electric vehicles and infrastructure needs, do not exist today and therefore we are active on multiple standard bodies. Batteries is one area where unfortunately, there aren't enough standards out there today but we are working with the standards organizations as mentioned above and believe the standards will continue to emerge as the industry grows.
Martin Thomsen
Dear Sidney,
Have other car manufacture than Nissan and Renault shown serious interest in making cars that adapt to Better Places battery swapping stations?
Best regards
Martin Thomsen- www.evtest.dk
Sidney Goodman
Hi Martin,
It's great to see the huge shift in mind set of the automotive industry towards EV's. If you walked the floor of any major auto show two years ago and then again the various shows across the globe this year, the change has been dramatic - EV's moved from back corner, sporadic, little display to "must have" forefront of every major OEM. That alone, is amazing but the industry still has a long way to go. Specifically in relation to battery switch, the question for the OEM has shifted from "can this be done technically?" to "how to integrate into our strategy?". Our recent demonstration of the battery switch technology which took place in Yokohama Japan last month, was a major milestone and moved many of the skeptics to believers. I have no doubt that additional OEM's will supply battery switch EV's in the future.
Palle Jensen
Your solution will eliminate one of the big obstacles for electric cars to become popular.
However, at a recent conference at DTU, a representative from EEA said that the planned implementation of electric cars is far from enough (in the transport sector) to secure the climate. More radical changes are needed.
I am working on the very promising RUF concept (www.ruf.dk) which compared to electric cars can:
1) Drive 3 times longer per kWh on the monorail (direct power)
2) Recharge enough on its monorail infrastructure, so that a typical commuter never need to recharge.
3) Only need to carry a small battery (1/3) for a 50 km range
4) Offer very attractive benefits to commuters (short and constructive travel time, very safe and fast)
5) A hybrid plug-in can be mounted in the empty slot when a RUF vehicle travels long distance from the monorail network.
6) RUF can be implemented as public transport in the beginning.
Many experts have recommended RUF (www.ruf.dk/recommendations.pdf) and a test track has proved the concept. The development has taken 20 years with support from EU, Danish Government and private sponsors.
RUF will be exhibited at the Bright and Green exhibition in December in Forum, Copenhagen.
My question is:
Are you interested in RUF as a plan B so that you have an answer when the decision makers realize that EV implementation is not enough?
Sidney Goodman
There are many other great projects and ideas out there which can be part of the greater solution (and while I'm no expert on RUF, from the little I do know, it is a great solution and I'll be happy to see it succeed). That said, I don't believe there is one solution that will solve the entire climate problem and believe that we do not have time to wait for that 'ONE' solution, if we did, we would be waiting for a very long time. Better Place is focused on one area (making electric cars available to the mass market) and we strongly believe we can make a significant impact on the climate problem and therefore will continue executing on it.
Bjarne Kristensen
Dear Sidney Goodman,
I would like to ask you a question regarding the battery pack exchange. My concerns are regarding the wear and tear of the battery packs and the quality of the battery packs put into your car at exchange stations.
Has it been considered that some users only rarely travel a distance that require a battery pack exchange and that such users may experience that they prior to the battery pack exhange was able to recharge the battery pack at home to travel e.g. 200 km and with the new battery pack they can only recharge the battery pack for 160 km (and vice versa).
In other words - how do you plan to control and verify the quality of the batteries and are users informed about this at a battery exchange?
The analogy to the present is that you suddenly has a 10% or 20% larger or smaller tank in your petrol car. With the range of the current electric vehicles 10-20% is quite important.
Best regards,
Bjarne Kristensen
Sidney Goodman
Better Place subscribers will be guaranteed a level of performance and no matter which battery one end ups receiving, it will always meet that performance (including a set state of charge of the battery with usable energy). Also important to note that each and every battery in the switch stations will pass a health check as part of it's charging cycle to ensure it meets the performance level required, this enables us to ensure we meet the guaranteed performance level and also allows us to push aside any battery that requires service or that for any reason doesn't meet expected performance.
Jan Skifter
What will become of all the old and worn out batteries?
Won't there be a great deal of pollution associated with the battery stations? (mountains of piled up batteries)..
Sidney Goodman
Absolutely not, these are not your typical lead-acid batteries of today. Most of the Li-Ion batteries materials can be recovered, Lithium is non-toxic and can be reused in battery manufacturing, so the batteries will be recycled according to global and country specific regulations.
Bjørn Godske
Dear Mr. Goodman
Have you estimated how many people that need to go more than 150 km a day I Denmark and therefore need to change batteries?
Have you taken into account that every major car producer work on battery cars that are not prepared for battery shift?
Don’t you think that the general battery technology will improve so we don’t have to change battery?
Sidney Goodman
The Better Place Infrastructure includes two important elements: Massive network of charge spots for plugging in (at Residual, Work, Retail and Public parking lots) which is what most drivers will be using on a daily base to top off wherever they park. And the second element is the Battery Switch Stations which serve for the extreme situations where extended range (beyond the range of the battery) is required. Our infrastructure will serve various EV's regardless if they have a fixed battery or switchable.
As for battery technology advances, I have no doubt that we will continue to see great improvements in the battery technologies: better energy density, durability and overall performance while prices will decrease. With all that said, in order to be able to meet the experience drivers are used to today in which they are in and out of a gas station with a full tank of gas in 5 minutes, can only be achieved with battery switch technology today. And in the future, as we get more and more energy into smaller batteries, the switch technology will be the only real viable commercial solution at scale for maintaining (and improving on) that quick "fuel-up" experience.
Marwin Lang
Hello Sidney,
Will there be other electrical cars produced besides Renault and Nissan?
Sidney Goodman
Yes, It has always been our goal to offer drivers a wide variety of driving options and we are encouraged by the number of large auto makers who have announced lines of electric cars. In addition to Renault-Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, BMW, Ford, Chrysler, BYD and GM to name a few, have all announced electric vehicle programs of some sort.
Caroline Osander
Is it dangerous to drive an electrical car? and is the battery sustainable?
Sidney Goodman
Driving an EV is a great experience, fun and completely safe. Lithium-ion batteries have been used for laptop computers, mobile phones, power tools and other mass consumer products for many years. The new Li-ion chemistries (iron phosphate and manganese spinel) used for vehicles are far more stable. Our suppliers conduct rigorous testing in auto environments and there are many systems in place to ensure safety.
Jais Knudsen
In order to make battery cars a success, owners may demand a solution where the car is as easy to re-fuel as gasoline cars - also when they drive in foreign countries. Do you think it would be a good idea - in a 10-15 years transition period - to provide possibility to hire gasoline driven power generators (on a car trailer) to allow a certain amount of flexibility to battery car owners, so they can use their cars *exactly* the same places as gasoline cars, and with 'infinite cruising range'? It would dramatically reduce the need for initial infrastructure cost, as I see it.
Sidney Goodman
Better Place believes that we need to act now to break our dependence on oil, and deliver a sustainable transportation model. Convenience has always been our primary goal with the consumer experience and by installing a network of charge spots & switch stations we believe that we can deliver an experience that is more convenient and affordable than that offered by today's gas/petrol stations... so why wait?
Steffen Frøkjær
When will the charge point be public to the detail, that existing eletrick cars can be rebuild/refit to use Better Place charge points?
Sidney Goodman
We have agreed to set up an amount of charging spots before COP 15, but the rest of our deployment is still on track, as originally planned to be installed for mass market use in 2011.
Morten Lindhard
Will it be possible to charge in any electric outlet or only in yours ? I hope the first so I can charge while I visit anyone- with a charge meter in the car so I also can pay for what I get. If not I wont buy.
Sidney Goodman
Our goal has always been to provide open, standards-based network so that electric cars that are not Better Place subscribers can charge using our infrastructure. But if you are a subscriber to Better Place with a switchable battery car, you are entitled to a range of services which includes the convenience of the full network of charge spots (and this is not a few charge spots in sporadic locations, I'm talking a massive network of charge spots at home, work parking lots, retails and public parking lots), switch stations, battery usage (did I mention that subscribers don't own the battery? rather Better Place takes on the financial risk of the battery...) and more services.
Kim Hansen
I think that I as a consumer would prefer to buy an electric car, which does not bind me to the lease agreements for a particular type of battery, which is limited to a few car manufacturers. Are you not worried that Quickcharge stations will outperform your concept, as the number of different electric cars, from a vide range of manufacturers, will be higher?
Sidney Goodman
We believe there will be a role for multiple different types of charging options, and Quick charge is yet another charging option which we will support as part of our infrastructure in some scenarios where it has merit (as oppose to "Fast charge" which many people use synonymously, and it is not the case..Quick charge is a 30-60min charge and a "Fast charge" of 5min as filling up gas, realistically does not exist in any way that can allow for a real scalable solution).
We believe to offer the consumer the most convenient and cost effective experience, and battery switch is the only option to deliver a convenient means of true range extension. You need to keep in mind a solution that can meet mass market adoption - when some one can prove that a better technology can allow the convenience of our solution at scale, with no implication to the electrical grid, no sacrifice on driver convenience, experience and affordability, Better Place will be happy to evaluate that solution.. it just does not exist today.
Holger Skjerning
Electric and electric-hybrid-cars, which can be charged at home or at many other places... - are very good for the future.
But when and where can I buy cars (brands/models), which can change battery - without a professional hightech-educated automechanic ???
Sidney Goodman
Our infrastructure and Renault electric cars with a switchable battery are planned to be available in Israel and Denmark starting in 2011.
Morten Lund
Have you considered electric motorcycles or scooters besides the cars?
Sidney Goodman
We are supportive and encourage all models of electric transportation, but our focus is on delivering electric cars for the mass market.
Dan Frederiksen
følgende er et sammenhængende spørgsmål.
have you analyzed peak load situations like festivals in remote areas with thousands of cars needing swap from a single station because they don't have the range to go to the next? will that not be a financial burden to have enough batteries at all stations for such eventuyality? or do you intend to live with such limitations in the same way that you can't travel abroad with the car? what recharge times are you planning inside the machines?
Sidney Goodman
We have an in-car software management system that will help us communicate with the grid and our control center to make sure we can optimize the network and handle shifts in demand with no disruption to the network and grid - in fact we actually help optimize it. This is also true is helping load balance the battery switch requirements across the network.
Dan Frederiksen
what are you doing to reduce the weight and aerodynamic drag of cars? the combustion engine is only part of what's inefficient with current cars
Sidney Goodman
Very true, and this is part of the work the car manufactures invest time and resources in as part of their development programs - in the future, you will see new composite materials used in car manufacturing, new design elements and other solutions that are all geared towards better efficiency of the cars.
Knud Nielsen
How many different car models are you preparing purpose built batteries for?
Thank you, Knud.
Sidney Goodman
As we are not manufacturing cars, I will leave those announcements to the actual manufacturers but I can say that Renault-Nissan Alliance have publicly communicated a full lineup of EV's (including both fixed and switchable batteries) and I am confident we will see more and more car types and other brands be introduced to the market in the future.
Kim Øster Larsen
Setting up charge stations and battery stations is of couse nessarry, but what if there are no cars to use them ?? eg, today there are no serius car on the market in DK.
Sidney Goodman
Getting to a full solution takes multiple entities (government, public and private sectors) to come together in an orchestrated way, which is what we at Better Place actually do - working with governments around the world to ensure appropriate legislation and consumer incentives are in place, working with the car OEM's, battery manufacturers, infrastructure players, utilities etc, so we jointly drive all elements to production. We have the Renault-Nissan alliance committed to delivering great and affordable cars in the market which work with the Better Place infrastructure and all plans are progressing on schedule towards the 2011 launch.
Thomas Djursing
Will the storage-facility of the batteries used to the battery switch station be connected to the electrical grid, so that power from the batteries can be used to keep the grid stabil in peak-periods. The reason I am asking is because the plan for quickcharging the batteries in the storage facility indicate the opposite. Will the first batterystations be disconnected from the grid?
Sidney Goodman
What the electrical grid does not like is spikiness, which is what will happen if you have thousands of mismanaged cars Quick charging at the same time. On the flip side, our network helps "load balance" the grid to ensure we don't burden it with such spikes and to allow for stabilizing the grid. In the future vehicle to grid technology will future aid with this issue, and the Switch stations are part of that network and are controlled to ensure smooth operation. In addition, in some cases, some of the switch stations will also be connected to other means of renewable power sources helping even more to stable grid load.
martin koch
I have 4 Questions:
1. Intelligent measure devices which can decide between expensive and cheap tarifs -do they come ? When? Who pays for it.
2.Can the battery be charged with 32 A? is DONG prepared for this? Again- who pays for it?
3.Who is doing car service for your el. cars?
4. Can other el. car users utilize your facilities (i.g. for battery-change)?
Sidney Goodman
1)When you subscribe on a monthly base and therefore regardless when you decide to plug-in, you will be charged but such intelligent is built into the solution and various subscription models will be offered to the drivers to choose from which may reflect this.
2) Charge spots will be 3-6kw and are part of the Better Place network.
3) The EV's will be serviced by the manufacture service network (same as today) so EV's sold by Renault will be serviced by the existing Renault dealership network.
4) Our network is open and standards based so it will serve multiple types of EV's for their charging needs. As for battery switch, currently we are the only battery switch operator but when additional operators join, we will definitely evaluate best ways to serve the entire market for a more convenient experience.
Nicolai Krøgh Daugbjerg
Hallo Sidney
How does Bette Place get the Danes to buy one of your new electric cars when they cost just as much as a normal petrol-drivin car, without tax?
Sidney Goodman
Pricing of the EV's has not been released at this point but there are great tax incentives in place in Denmark to accelerate the market adoption. In addition, Better Place's offering will ensure the total cost of ownership of the EV is cheaper then a comparable fuel based ownership in the Danish market today.
Søren Rune Nissen
Many currently available batteries contain toxic chemicals, which is generally not a problem. At road speeds, however, where collisions occur multiple times each day, what prevents batteries from breaking open and releasing toxins into the environment?
Sidney Goodman
The Li-Ion batteries are very different then the old toxic batteries. These are non toxic,safe and will be recycled. Many safety measures are built into various levels of the systems both for the battery and the car.
Kasper Ehlert Neve
Helo
Are northeren Denmark incluted in the project?
Will it be posible for ppl in outerarears to get anny benafit of the project Better Place?
How will Better Place implant charging stations at compernys propperty? So the implyies are able to charge there electric cars?
Sidney Goodman
The city of Copenhagen will be where our first deployment takes place and additional roll-out plans will be announced by our Denmark operations as time goes by. We are working closely with companies and other entities to ensure infrastructure deployment will take place to address appropriate needs.
Peter Flarup
Hi,
What will you do to prevent dust and stuff like that to interfere with the connecter (battery -> Car) I mean, the current is very high, so we have a great potential for resistance in the connecter.
Best regards,
Peter Flarup
Sidney Goodman
This is definitely part of the factors taken into account as part of the vehicle and battery designs to ensure efficient, reliable and safe operations.
Lars Jensen
How is it going with the project schedule.
Is it still in 2012 that the normal public can expect to buy a car?
Sidney Goodman
Plans are on schedule both of the Better Place solution (infrastructure, operations, IT systems etc) as are the EV delivery plans by Renault. we are targeting to start launch already in 2011 to some entities and continue roll out to meet overall market demand.
Jacob Riis
Will I be able to recharge a Think City or a Mitsubishi iMiEV ?
It would be great to know if we there was a guarantee that when buying a new electric car I can use Project Better Place charging stations. Think about it: certified for Project Batter Place
Sidney Goodman
As mentioned before, we are open and standard based solution and will allow multiple types of EV's to charge on our network - specific subscription plans will be announced as we get closer to launch of the system.
